I was blessed to be in some wonderful, intellectually stimulating churches. I think of it as humility and respecting my limitations, but I understand the line between humility and doublethink is quite thin. I believe that I am endowed by my Creator with the power to put an end to the vast majority of human misery and suffering in this life It begins with me as a single drop in a vast ocean. Our sinful human nature craves it. I think the way to achieve this is to leave Calvin/theology out entirely and instead actively love/listen/show compassion. Do you believe that God could not stop you if he wished? My bet would be that some (many?) I witnessed a weird detachment with this thinking, and people almost having to downplay love or relationship with others.. Takes great delight in you living your life, the ups and the downs. Id prefer not to use the word to describe myself. He is NOT against us, but thank God, He is for us!! We have a question for you? What do you think I see within Calvinism that might make it hard for me to accept that system? Hunt, Finney, Hyles, and Billy Graham would number in the non (anti)-calvinists that I personally have less respect for. There is something that has been horribly misinterpreted in the verse about All things work together for good..etc It has almost created a cult of catastrophe. Im sure no one here would like someone to denounce their beliefs by stating them in a way that they dont accept. Youd be welcome at the table in my wigwam too Jeff. People, including you, got upset from Calvinists just stating their views. Its also what attracts many people to Calvinism nice boxes for everything, and rules connecting those boxes. Other authors, some who have made extensive contributions in the fields of biblical and theological studies, include Kenneth Mathews, Tremper Longman III, Walt Kaiser, Chuck Quarles, Stan Porter, Malcolm Yarnell III, and David Dockery. Your voice is missing! Again, living in a 3 dimensional world, that makes little sense. Because their first and most precious assumption is that truth is forever beyond any human agency. Im aware of his molecule statement. There are many bite marks on my tongue. Unless I either stop believing what I think is true or shut up about it, it seems I will forever put in a box of this nonsense, unloving idea that God is the author of evil and we are mindless automatons. I dont know that any of the venues get one closer to God than the others. Thats what I think the intention of this blog post was. Have you forgotten his evangelism tours where there were great multitudes of rebaptisms? Those who fell outside the box and had to be pushed away Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Why can we not focus on God and Jesus and what He did for us? (It had seemed strange to pay for a gift. LOLGod works in mysterious and wonderful ways! 5:11-14 (cf. I think people are blaming a theology when the real evil is in the hearts of men. What content does your faith have? I ended up writing my final essay for my theology degree on the extent of the atonement. The list consists of 89 members. And really, in the end, if a doctrine about the majesty and greatness of God doesnt comfort traumatized people (among all the needy humans out there), then of what real use is it? I will not monopolize the conversation..I apologize for my run on posts. God sends rain on the just and the unjust. They are part of what it means to be human. One more point- there have been those on this board who have argued before (in fact, I think Dee was one) that there is a difference between God causing something and God allowing something. I think it is sad that the PC(USA) rejected the song because of a line that is part of their doctrinal heritage. First of all we have to understand that what is affirmed- that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass from all eternity- is not unique to Reformed theology. Is some parts of the word more important than other parts? Ive seen only the first 15 minutes so far, and what he says makes sense to me: Is God the AUTHOR OF SIN? I think this post was a great step toward making those folks feel more welcome. Concerning double predestination: If by it you mean that God makes people sin so that he can judge them and send them to hell no, I dont think the Bible says that. Carson Tim Challies Francis Chan (commonly referred to as "Calvinist Light") Matt Chandler Vincent Cheung Ray Comfort Tim Conway Mark Dever Kevin DeYoung Mark Driscoll Ligon Duncan I am currently reading Roger Olson's book, Against Calvinism. What you describe is nothing like what I believe nor anyone I know believes. But for the most part, until I started studying apologetics, I didnt really care about the supposed differences and still dont except to understand but not as a means of division. Yes, Nouthetic Counseling and a lot of teachers have given this impression, but they are wrong. The assuredness of the approach is arrogant. When a baby is born, mamas milk comes out as colostrum a very thick yellow substance perfectly designed to meet babies need exactly at the newborn stage of life. Ive done better with some on TWW than others, many times because of my own insensitivity. One reason is because I have gone through periods where I questioned Gods goodness because of certain events in my life and in those of others. I hear the person,"Calvin," discussed more than "Jesus." We are human, after all and I think all humans, from the beginning of time, have asked these questions, not just monotheists. Please feel free to cut and paste comments to which you are responding over at that other post. Olsen is one of the writers who sees two "loose coalitions" developing in evangelical theology. Although in the ever increasing post-denominational ecumenical trend, a lot of this gets blurred and you'll occasionally see Calvinist doctrines pop up even among the occasional practitioner of any tradition. Almost every theological viewpoint, and every Christian denomination, has a corresponding Systematic Theology book that reflects their positions on different topics of Scripture. And it wouldnt matter to me if what the person said was true or not. I hear the person, Calvin, discussed more than Jesus. I hear the word gospel placed in front of all primary and secondary issues. Wehad the opportunityto spend the weekend with Wade and his family. An infant does not want, nor desire steak. Theres sort of a flip saying that goes get 10 Calvinists in a room and youll get 30 different opinions on what Calvinism is> Okay, that saying applies in many circumstances :). Like you, I only care about what scripture says. Righteousness: Imputed? In my mind its all about power. There are some who would consider me non charitable. Especially the statements above. . As leader of the Anti-Revolutionary Party in the Netherlands he served as Prime Minister of his country from 1901 to 1905. A secondary cause is always subservient to the primary cause, which is God. He once called Wesley an inconsistent Calvinist. Athanasian nope, that seems tove been written by someone (probably not Athanasius, by all accounts) barking up entirely the wrong end of the stick. I did not but I definitely got the immigrant part and am proud of m Russian heritage. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I guess a lot of folks dont really know that its possible to be non-Calvinist but emphatically not Arminian. And in their zeal, they often miss obvious signs that are bringing the hurt person even deeper into pain. (My experience, from childhood on.). The correct understanding of any belief system shouldnt be of importance when Jesus says to come to him as a child., I think Jesus meant childlike, not childish. Childlike faith and trust are good, but faith has content, and, as it says in Hebrews, we should not be satisfied all our lives with the milk of the word, but should graduate to solid food.. I will say they are much more composed personalities. A person who is happy (if that word lacks depth for anyone, you could substitute hopeful, optimistic, joyful, grateful) can affect others with it, 3 generations worth (ie- someone with happiness holds a door for someone carrying a heavy load, that person is then affected positively and they in turn affect someone else with their bolstered happiness). He also read the Gospel of John for the first time, (it was given to him), while smoking pot. Every kindness & every meanness I do sends ripples outward and I birth the future by my words and deeds. But I do believe in TULIP and the majority of the WCF- what label should I use to communicate that when people are interested? Believe me, Ive tried. Are they involved in a joint venture? A lot of people (hostile atheists especially) like to frame the whole ordeal as in, How mean or wrong it was of God to make that forbidden fruit tree when he knew Adam and Eve would eat from it, but the guy pointed out thats the not the way to look at it. Although occasionally hurt by these accusations of heresy, he responds like a gentleman. It depends, some advocates of Reformed theology say, on whether Christians on both sides are willing to tiptoe through the TULIP-the acrostic for five doctrinal points that set apart Calvinists. I didnt say childish. Thank you for letting me know what you think Jesus meant. Does not a little yeast leaven the whole batch? This is a big issue for me, because theres a difference in believing in PSA and believing it is central to the Gospel or that believing a different atonement theology is a different Gospel. But its brought up a lot, so what am I supposed to do? You see, dedicated, intelligent theologianshave gone down this road for centuries and still disagree with one another. YOU are never in a position to disagree or agree with their orthodoxy. Yet, no matter how hard I tried to understand, I just couldn't get there. That is why I do not now, nor will I ever, follow a man. I dont even think PSA is limited to Calvinists- Lutherans believe it too, right? Calvinists are Christians and Calvinists and non-Calvinist Christians share a multitude of common ideas and beliefs. 14 William Lane Craig Accept that many Calvinists have never experienced a doctrinally rigorous, non-Calvinist church. And, yes, there is much more to Calvinism than TULIP, though the two are thought of as interchangeable. Been there, done that, have the scars (healing, but still) to prove it! Sproul Steve Lawson Voddie Bachham Wayne Grudem People Guilty Of Greatly Spreading The False "Free Will" Gospel: Bill Bright Billy Graham Charles Finney If the person makes the comment because he/she believes its important that others should know that there are people who can be hurt by that conversation in real life, how should that affect the online discussion? Push back is not the same thing as not wanting people to be honest. Dr Abraham Kuyper (1837-1920) was a Dutch Calvinist theologian, philosopher and politician. In spite of the current emphasis on Neo-Calvinism, it is still a minority position. On some He will act directly; others He will be aware of and use for His purposes. Calvin as a Ferengi LOL!!! @ Bridget: The assuredness of the approach is arrogant. I think that this is the reason why, in some cases (not including anyone in the present discussion), that a robust discussion is not possible. I am going to quote liberally from Sprouls book Truths We Confess, Vol 1 about this section of WCF. I have a very low tolerance for that kind of thing. Ah yes, those were the days A friend of mine came to the Lord while living in the hills above Santa Barbara in a teepee and smoking a lot of pot He and his wife were some of the most sane, grounded people I knew in the 80s. God can do that. Thank you, thank you, for getting it right! But that doesnt mean I ignore what others have looked at in scripture and believed about it. A group, rightly or wrongly, is defined by the fruit that we see (often the problem with Christianity in general, right?). I'd also add Thomas Cranmer to that group (leader of the English Reformation, author of the Book of Common Prayer, and most of the 39 Articles) 7. I hear the word "gospel" placed in front of all primary and secondary issues. However, when a woman has been abused for years by the men in her life, its going to be natural that she lashes out at men and not feel safe around them. This is a corollary to Julie Anne Smith's story above. It is nice to meet someone who remembers.If you dont mind me prying, where did you grow up? To be fair to Calvin and Darwin, Im not a Bulbeckist. It sounds to me like a generation of bloggers has mainstreamed hyper-Calvinism. Ill have to look that one up. Hes describing man, not God. God doesnt have internal conflicts, though sometimes the Bible portrays it this way to make a point.. Why isnt it simple, like the works of John Owen and Jonathan Edwards? Some, myself included, who spent years in controlling and abusive churches would say that to be infantilised is the last thing we need.